2011 Rule Changes

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2011 Rule Changes

Postby JPZ » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:18 pm

I was going over some posts on the PDGA site about the new 2011 rule changes, and so far I cannot get clarification on 1 thing!
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OBSTACLES AND RELIEF: 803.05
Significant changes here. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course with the exception of casual obstacles to a stance listed below. A player is allowed to request that other people remove themselves and/or their belongings from the player's stance or line of play. This includes spectators, umbrellas, golf bags, chairs, etc…

Casual obstacles as in current rules – casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round – can be moved if they are in the player’s stance or run-up, even if part of the item like a branch is in front of the lie.

If the casual item can’t be moved, like water or a bee hive, the player may take free relief up to 5m back on the line of play like before. If players require additional relief beyond 5m, they may invoke either the new Optional Relief rule (803.05C) and go back on the line of play as far as they desire with a one-throw penalty. Or, decide to declare the Optional Rethrow discussed previously and return to their original lie and throw again with a one-throw penalty.
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So, this mean that I can now move a branch that is behind and in front of my disc, if it is in the way of my run-up? cool ....but.....
Does this also apply to a stick/branch/rock that is under my disc?
Do I mark the lie, then move the stick?
Do I get a penalty if the disc or marker gets moved?
Just trying to clarify because this rule seems great! At least the way I read it :?
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby jonp » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:13 pm

yes
marking is your option unless it's completely off the ground
no penalty

if your disc is completely off the ground:
803.08 Disc Above Or Below the Playing Surface:
A. If a disc comes to rest above the playing
surface in a tree or other obstacle on the
course, its lie shall be marked on the playing
surface directly below it

if it's touching the playing surface:
803.07 Interference:
B. If a disc at rest on the playing surface or
supported by the target is moved, the disc
shall be replaced as close as possible to its
original location, as determined by a majority
of the group or an official. If a marker disc is
moved, the marker disc shall be replaced as
close as possible to its original location, as
determined by a majority of the group or an
official.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby JPZ » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:32 pm

Thanks Doc , now could you give that to me in layman’s terms :lol:

Just kidding!

So, mark it and move the stick, eh?
8)
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby jritger » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:54 pm

here's a situation that happened to me @ flyboy, what would the ruling be: hole 27, 2nd shot shules into the woods and the only way i can get to the basket is forehand roller. I throw it and it finds a 12" pipe that runs under the helicopter guy's way out to the runway. So my shot has come to rest in a pipe 24" under the playing surface, no way to get the disc out.

under new rules, i can mark above that and play without penalty?
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby 12StonesScott » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:43 pm

jritger wrote:here's a situation that happened to me @ flyboy, what would the ruling be: hole 27, 2nd shot shules into the woods and the only way i can get to the basket is forehand roller. I throw it and it finds a 12" pipe that runs under the helicopter guy's way out to the runway. So my shot has come to rest in a pipe 24" under the playing surface, no way to get the disc out.

under new rules, i can mark above that and play without penalty?


I'm sure that wasn't the intent. I think what most officials would probably say is the right ruling under the spirit of the rules changes is that you'd take the optional re-throw (803.06) from the previous lie with a one-stroke penalty, unless the TD has specifically designated the pipe as a "casual obstacle" area (or as out-of-bounds) -- this would be the closest to the previous Unplayable Lie rule, which would have applied in the past. Designating it as a casual obstacle would allow for relief up to 5m behind the lie on the line of play without penalty.

However, reading strictly what Rule 803.08 actually says, you could make a strong argument that you should be able to mark the lie above the disc and play without penalty. I'd be interested to hear what the rules committee members would say, though.

Several things in the rules changes make me think it's going to be more critical than ever for TDs to be excruciatingly explicit in player's meetings/tournament programs about what's OB, and especially what is and isn't a "casual obstacle".
Last edited by 12StonesScott on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby djester » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:43 pm

It sounds like you'd have to try to go 5m back and if you have to go further, then the ruling applies as directed.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby jonp » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:05 pm

You're SOL. From the article on the PDGA front page:

DISC ABOVE OR BELOW THE PLAYING SURFACE: 803.08
The “disc below playing surface” phrase has been moved from the Rules Q&A and added to this rule. This applies to a disc located down on a “non-playing surface” that players would not be able to play from such as a crack in the ground. The “disc below playing surface” section does not apply to a disc resting on or above a playing surface where another playing surface like a bridge might also pass above the disc.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby 12StonesScott » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:24 pm

jonp wrote:You're SOL. From the article on the PDGA front page:

DISC ABOVE OR BELOW THE PLAYING SURFACE: 803.08
The “disc below playing surface” phrase has been moved from the Rules Q&A and added to this rule. This applies to a disc located down on a “non-playing surface” that players would not be able to play from such as a crack in the ground. The “disc below playing surface” section does not apply to a disc resting on or above a playing surface where another playing surface like a bridge might also pass above the disc.


I considered that explanation before replying -- unfortunately, that explanation doesn't appear in the rules themselves, which is why I replied the way I did. There's a lot of grey area on this one -- certainly being inside the pipe constitutes "a 'non-playing surface' that players would not be able to play from such as a crack in the ground" -- it's not possible to play from inside the pipe. The implication of that last sentence is that the rule doesn't apply in situations where there is another playing surface above the location of the disc, but the disc is in a location that can be played from, as in the example they give of a bridge that passes over the lie. Strict interpretation of the rule hinges on whether the disc is resting on a "playing surface" or beneath it; requiring a re-throw with penalty would entail a determination that the interior of the pipe constitutes a "playing surface" with another "playing surface" above it. As long as the ground above the disc is considered the "playing surface" and the location of the disc in the pipe is not (and it couldn't be, based on the explanation given in the rules change article), then John would have a pretty strong case for marking the lie on the ground above the pipe and playing from there without penalty.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby jonp » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:51 pm

the article is unsigned...weak. i agree with you Ritger has a case...inside the pipe is not a playing surface.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby JPZ » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:26 am

jritger wrote:here's a situation that happened to me @ flyboy, what would the ruling be: hole 27, 2nd shot shules into the woods and the only way i can get to the basket is forehand roller. I throw it and it finds a 12" pipe that runs under the helicopter guy's way out to the runway. So my shot has come to rest in a pipe 24" under the playing surface, no way to get the disc out.

under new rules, i can mark above that and play without penalty?



803.08 Disc Above or Below the Playing Surface
B. If a disc comes to rest below the playing surface, its lie shall be marked on the playing
surface directly above it. If the point directly above the disc is an out-of-bounds area, the
disc shall be declared out-of-bounds and marked an penalized in accordance with 803.09. If the playing surface directly above the disc is inside a solid obstacle, the lie shall be marked on the line of play immediately behind the solid obstacle.

:roll: Sounds very obvious to me............mark it above the pipe w/out penalty.
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