Improving backhand drive

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Improving backhand drive

Postby OuiMan » Wed May 05, 2010 10:46 pm

I got started playing at the end of last year and while my game has improved I still cannot get much distance off of my backhand drive. I feel like I have it under control just no distance. Max is like 200 feet.

I've been practicing with a 175g Star Valkyrie and 175g Champion Viking.

There seems to be a lot of experts on this forum. What did some of you guys do to work it out?
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby grease » Wed May 05, 2010 10:48 pm

Get the "Fundamentals of Disc Golf" dvd featuring Ken Climo and Dave Feldberg (close personal friends of mine).
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby billnchristy » Thu May 06, 2010 7:56 am

Definitely get the video.

Disc down too, those are pretty fast discs for 200' of distance.

Try a leopard, cheetah, polaris LS, gazelle. etc.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby Corndawg13 » Thu May 06, 2010 9:15 am

Poster beware of posting things like this. People on here can be brutal for no reason sometimes, just wait. Forget paying for a video, go to Discraft.com and watch their FREE tutorial videos. It is all about coming across your chest smoothly and creating good snap at the end of your throw. Grip matters, release angle matters, follow through matters. Try and play with people who throw farther and watch them and try some things they do. also try to play doubles at your local course. Come to Central Park around 5:30 in the afternoons and play with some of the better CP players. distance comes in spurts. I played with Phil Arthur at Flyboy and gained 70 feet in two weeks after playng 9 holes with him.

Go to www.discgolfersr.us and post this same post there and you will get a much better response post. TRUST ME! Good luck and let me know if I can help you, I throw 385 but only play intermediate, so I am no "expert."
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby richardhead » Thu May 06, 2010 9:33 am

grease wrote:Get the "Fundamentals of Disc Golf" dvd featuring Ken Climo and Dave Feldberg (close personal friends of mine).


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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby richardhead » Thu May 06, 2010 9:36 am

Corndawg13 wrote:Poster beware of posting things like this. People on here can be brutal for no reason sometimes, just wait.


I don't agree with this entirely. It becomes brutal when the posts become redundant. Ask your question, make your point, and then on to the next one. You get called out for beating a dead horse on every topic and then you start to whine about it. There's plenty of useful knowledge on this message board, but there's also a bunch of pointless babble. See, fun for the whole family.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby nixonrocks » Thu May 06, 2010 9:47 am

I'm in the same boat with you in wanting to improve my backhand drive. I'm a rec player. I have the first two Scott Stokley videos, and they are ok. I wouldn't recommend you buy them. The Discraft videos are good, but the Climo and Feldberg DVD is so much better. The overall quality and video production is a thousand times better than the Stokley and early Discraft videos.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby richardhead » Thu May 06, 2010 9:50 am

OuiMan wrote:I got started playing at the end of last year and while my game has improved I still cannot get much distance off of my backhand drive. I feel like I have it under control just no distance. Max is like 200 feet. What did some of you guys do to work it out?


As was said before, it's all about grip, angle, and release point. If you feel like you don't have a strong arm, I would switch to something a little less stable, maybe a Sidewinder, Leopard, Cheetah. Or even start with a Mid Range disc, like a Cobra, Roc, Shark, etc. Personally, I started playing with a Beast. As my snap and arm speed increased I started throwing more Stable discs. It really depends on your release angle. Some people release flat, with anhyzer, or with hyzer. Results are going to vary depending on your grip, release, and arm speed. One point to remember is that most discs will come back to the left at the end, if you throw Right Hand Back Hand. Results will be opposite if you throw sidearm or lefty.

Having not seen you throw, I would suggest downsizing to a Sidewinder and begin releasing the disc flat or with a little anhyzer. If the disc does not hyzer out at the end you will need to change your release angle. Distance will come along the more that you play. This sport relies so much on muscle memory. You really have to train your muscles to do the same thing over and over again. I realize that you want more distance, but I would suggest focusing on approach shots and putting. The distance and accuracy with distance will come eventually. If the putting and approaching are fine tuned, you will be sitting pretty.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby Funky Bobby J » Thu May 06, 2010 10:01 am

The discraft videos on Youtube are not bad either if you do not want to buy a DVD
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby Dave B » Thu May 06, 2010 10:33 am

The discraft videos help alot. The Climo Feldburg video helped ALOT! But just to reiterate, as I am relatively new to this myself, GO OUT TO LOCAL ACTION AND PLAY WITH BETTER PLAYERS. This hands down is what has made my game better and better. The videos and what not are good for the basic technique, but each person is going to adapt these a little bit to themselves. Playing with other players that are willing to show you things and getting your butt whooped on is a great motivator to get better.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby mrpbody33 » Thu May 06, 2010 11:43 am

What did some of you guys do to work it out?

For some folks it comes naturally. For others they have to learn and practice. I fall into the latter category.

Ken Climo and David Feldberg's DVD on the Fundamentals of Disc Golf is essential for anyone who is serious about the sport. Key things to take away from the DVD is that true distance comes from using bigger stronger muscles to propel the disc and you just have a firm grip on the disc. You really aren't throwing the disc with your hand/arm so much as your entire body.

The truth of the matter is really just get out there are watch others. Don't be afraid to ask them what they are doing. I have been playing for almost 5 years now and I still learn new techniques for everyone on the course.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby VERMIN » Thu May 06, 2010 1:32 pm

I would hire a Kung Fu Sensei to beat you with a stick until you start throwing it farther. It won't take long to increase your distance because after awhile you will hate getting hit by his stick.

Also try the less stable discs as suggested. Sidewinders and SS Avengers are a nice start. I sidearm max weight overstable drivers but throw 165g range and semi-stable on my backhands.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby djester » Thu May 06, 2010 1:38 pm

Snoop Dogg has a good instructional video on using your backhand.... I think he calls it a "pimp hand" though. 8)

Either way, you are bound to gain some form of information.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby cnalbers » Thu May 06, 2010 4:26 pm

Technique is what gets distance. Muscle helps, but it won't help if you don't know how to use it. The bottom line, IMO, is spin rate and velocity... the faster you make the disc go and the faster it spins, the father it will go. They key is getting these both together... disc speed is about technique, and spin rate is about grip (mostly) and snapping your wrist at the end of your motion. Seek out some local doubles and play with better players, enter some tourneys, and you'll learn a lot. Most longtime DGer's are happy to share their knowledge.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby VERMIN » Thu May 06, 2010 4:34 pm

Snoop Dogg won't share his info for free. He is a playa and demands he get his cut of the action for schooling someone on the use of the "Pimp Hand" .....
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby djester » Thu May 06, 2010 4:52 pm

fo shizzle, etc, etc & so forth
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby Corndawg13 » Thu May 06, 2010 10:33 pm

If you have the money to spend, buy the video, if not look for discraft stuff for free. Either way, the fundamentals are the same. I agree with the fluidity of the throw as opposed to having muscles or what not. I am athletic and by looking at me someone once said to me, "what do you throw like 450?" Of course I said, no, try 350. But I know throw 380. Some of the smallest guys I have seen playing DG have outhrown mostly anyone because they know how to use what they have to get max distance. Never get discouraged and think to yourself that you cannot throw as far as someone because you probably just do not know how to do it yet. Watch as many videos as you can, play with different people, watch them and ask questions. Playing a tourney or not is up to you. Once you get form and technique down, distance will come in time. You definitly should stay away from overstable discs as someone else mentioned above.

AND/OR try FOREHAND.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby grease » Thu May 06, 2010 10:45 pm

How many times do we have to beat this dead horse? I think there should be a permanent post for the new player that has all of the above advice that has been posted thousands of times. It would read:
1. Get such or such video
2. Play local doubles
3. Play with better players and ask advice
4. DON"T BE TOO SHY TO ASK BETTER PLAYERS FOR ADVICE ON THE COURSE
5. Don't ask dumb questions or post dumb posts on the message board and expect no one to make fun of you.

Don't take this as offensive Ouiman, it's just the truth!
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby OuiMan » Thu May 06, 2010 11:17 pm

Well Grease, I am sorry to upset you if this was beating a dead horse. I did go back the last 4 pages in the Q&A section to see if this was a common question and I did not see a similar post. By all means if this is common, maybe the mods can make it a sticky because it was the first thing I looked for while going through the Q&A.

I did take your advice and purchase the video (FYI you may want to tell your friends at primo to carry it if you recommend it).

I also checked out some of the Discraft videos tonight and saw some things that I will try at some point from the long distance video. Right now I'm in that stage where I just try the 3 step backwards drop and pull it across my body. As an update, I went out to Chamblee DGC today for lunch and worked on my backhand drives of the white tees and was able to put some within a few feet of the basket on hole 1 while I was waiting for my coworkers to get there. It's not perfect but I was pleased with the improvement.

I have a 166g Champion TeeBird that I bought for my fiancee that I've been using as I saw most people said to practice with an understable disc.

I was thinking of checking out the doubles at East Roswell next Wednesday as I would like to get other's input. I saw most of you said to go and play doubles, my only concern with this before was that since I'm a beginner is this really going to rub people the wrong way. Is everyone generally cool with people that are just starting out? East Roswell is a pretty challenging course (a definite confidence breaker as well).

Also, thank you all of you that posted advice. I assure you I'm going to take it all in and try to make the best of it.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby keith johnson » Fri May 07, 2010 12:16 am

Just make sure if you are going to play ERP doubles that you go on THURSDAY when the doubles are - as on Wednesday you won't find anyone there. :mrgreen:
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby gvan » Fri May 07, 2010 12:18 am

1) I'm not sure Grease has any friends at Primo Plastic. They are very posh and Grease has a beard.
2) Teebird is a stable to overstable disc. If it is acting understable for you you likely have a problem with form (like wrist roll) or it's a very well used Teebird. Leopard, Cheetah, Sidewinder are good understable choices to work on 300'

This article on the GDGO website may repeat some of the info from here, but may be useful http://gdgo.org/main/?page_id=74
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby 12StonesScott » Fri May 07, 2010 12:28 am

OuiMan wrote:I was thinking of checking out the doubles at East Roswell next Wednesday as I would like to get other's input. I saw most of you said to go and play doubles, my only concern with this before was that since I'm a beginner is this really going to rub people the wrong way. Is everyone generally cool with people that are just starting out? East Roswell is a pretty challenging course (a definite confidence breaker as well).


Doubles at ERP is on Thursday night, but you're welcome to come out. I played several times last year and plan to start again now that some of the kids' school activities are slowing down. I'm without question the weakest player who shows up with any regularity, and I'm sure Matt V and Jon P and others cursed their luck at ending up with me as a partner on more than one occasion, but no one complained out loud to my face. Most are cool about it; I'd be lying if I didn't say that I think there are some that aren't, but that's their problem -- it is RANDOM draw doubles. The more insightful players are going to realize that the more folks who show up each week, the more they stand to gain on the weeks where they do draw a strong partner. If Gomez wants to introduce a system for ensuring that all players at ERP doubles are at or above a certain level, fine. Until then, you've got as much right as anyone to be there.

Personally, I don't see the issue if different people do post similar questions repeatedly over time -- no one's compelled to read the posts or respond to them, and with a steady influx of new people to the sport, there's always going to be some who have basic questions and don't know where else to ask. You can put the common questions and answers in a sticky thread, but a lot of people are going to miss it anyway (based on my experience with other message boards).

I've found that the forums on DiscGolfCourseReview.com are a great place to ask even basic questions -- there's forums dedicated to technique and to equipment as well as more general topics, and generally the other posters are pretty patient even with commonly asked questions (though they may get slightly testy about "what's par?" and "what's an ace?" and "is the Roc or the Buzz a better disc?"). It's a much bigger community, which means both that you get a wide range of opinions, and that there's probably as much advice you should ignore as that you should take, but it's generally more receptive to new players than this board.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby dandaman » Fri May 07, 2010 12:58 am

I did take your advice and purchase the video (FYI you may want to tell your friends at primo to carry it if you recommend it).


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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby richardhead » Fri May 07, 2010 8:24 am

Denied!!!
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby grease » Fri May 07, 2010 9:21 am

I guess I should have been more gentle and suggested the moderators add a thread for beginner players to ask for advice or tips for improving their game.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby BP » Fri May 07, 2010 10:03 am

I think the Mods just wanted to see the gentler side of Grease! :geek:

All good advice:

find some understand discs

watch some instructional videos (watch them more than once)

PRACTICE as much as you play on a course - I found that throwing in an open field produced more information for me than playing a round out on the course - it will help you learn more about your discs and your progress

play with better players and get feedback - others can tell you what you are actually doing vs. what you "think" you are doing


grease wrote:I guess I should have been more gentle and suggested the moderators add a thread for beginner players to ask for advice or tips for improving their game.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby jonp » Fri May 07, 2010 10:08 am

grease wrote:I guess I should have been more gentle and suggested the moderators add a thread for beginner players to ask for advice or tips for improving their game.

maybe call it "Q & A" so they know where to ask
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby Dale H » Fri May 07, 2010 10:17 am

Mr. Richard Head gave excellent advice on improving distance. I would also suggest disc selection and weight in addition to his comments. Start working with drivers that are understable: sidewinder, roadrunner, beast, leopard, monarch, etc. This will help you gain distance and perfect your technique. Start with weight lighter than 175. I use a ton of 150s to 165s when not too windy. I don't have a cannon but can get around 300 - 325 consistently and I have tried same disc with heavier weight but get more distance with lighter weight (150 beast vs. 164 beast).
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby grease » Mon May 10, 2010 10:25 pm

Bottom line Ouiman, play with more experienced players when you can. Have them watch your throwing
technique and don't be embarrassed if they rip it apart. Believe it or not, I enjoy giving tips and advice
to new players and watching them improve . Come out to White Oak some time. Shoot me a pm when you do.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby djester » Mon May 10, 2010 11:12 pm

you could show him your big deck !!
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby Redan Randy » Tue May 11, 2010 7:51 am

grease wrote:Believe it or not, I enjoy giving tips to new players and watching them. Come out to White Oak some time. Shoot me a pm when you do.

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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby VERMIN » Tue May 11, 2010 9:41 am

grease wrote:Bottom line Ouiman, play with more experienced players when you can. Have them watch your throwing
technique and don't be embarrassed if they rip it apart. Believe it or not, I enjoy giving tips and advice
to new players and watching them improve . Come out to White Oak some time. Shoot me a pm when you do.


Can we still comment since Grease used a "Bottom Line" comment?

I still think he could throw farther if someone hit him with a stick every time he threw a short drive.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby OuiMan » Tue May 11, 2010 11:00 pm

12StonesScott wrote:
Doubles at ERP is on Thursday night, but you're welcome to come out. I played several times last year and plan to start again now that some of the kids' school activities are slowing down. I'm without question the weakest player who shows up with any regularity, and I'm sure Matt V and Jon P and others cursed their luck at ending up with me as a partner on more than one occasion, but no one complained out loud to my face. Most are cool about it; I'd be lying if I didn't say that I think there are some that aren't, but that's their problem -- it is RANDOM draw doubles. The more insightful players are going to realize that the more folks who show up each week, the more they stand to gain on the weeks where they do draw a strong partner. If Gomez wants to introduce a system for ensuring that all players at ERP doubles are at or above a certain level, fine. Until then, you've got as much right as anyone to be there.


I plan on being there Thursday night. Congrats on the fact that you have one person that is weaker now :D

grease wrote:Bottom line Ouiman, play with more experienced players when you can. Have them watch your throwing
technique and don't be embarrassed if they rip it apart. Believe it or not, I enjoy giving tips and advice
to new players and watching them improve . Come out to White Oak some time. Shoot me a pm when you do.


Grease, thanks again for the recommendation for the Fundamentals DVD. I just got it in the mail today and finished watching it for the first time. I can already see plenty where I can improve. It's funny because I find this videos so much more valuable that most of the ones on discraft.com. Be careful because I may PM you one day to meet up with you at White Oak. I'd like to play all of the Atlanta based courses in the next year or so. I'm flying to Canton, OH next week so I'm going to try and hit up a couple of courses up there when I am there. According to dgcoursereview.com, one of them has a 700 ft hole. I'm interested in seeing that.

My bottom line is that I appreciate everyone's feedback and hopefully in a couple months I will be able to create another post related to the successful improvement.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby grease » Wed May 12, 2010 11:00 pm

Glad you liked it Ouiman. There's a reason why the Discraft videos are free online. They're not quite as insightful as the "Fundamentals"
video.
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby Steve Adams » Thu May 13, 2010 1:09 pm

grease wrote:Glad you liked it Ouiman. There's a reason why the Discraft videos are free online. They're not quite as insightful as the "Fundamentals"
video.


Another free training video.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/good_da ... nge-051110
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Re: Improving backhand drive

Postby kade.erp » Fri May 14, 2010 12:33 am

Steve Adams wrote:
grease wrote:Glad you liked it Ouiman. There's a reason why the Discraft videos are free online. They're not quite as insightful as the "Fundamentals"
video.


Another free training video.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/good_da ... nge-051110



I just watched this training video. It is crap. Some guy is telling the atlanta news anchors how to throw. Its worse than the discrap videos that are free on you tube. Don't waste your time. :wink:
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