Alternate Pin Positions

Gwinnett County - Snellville, Ga

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Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Vicki » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:37 am

Gwinnett County has given us the go ahead on alternate pin positions for Lenora. Where have you always wanted to see a basket?

We also will be adding some shrubbery and trees in the coming year, what suggestions do you have for placing these?
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby billnchristy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:55 am

2 lines of shubbery on 3 at the crest of the hill giving you a couple windows to throw through.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby richardhead » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:53 am

The Knights who say NI, demand another shrubbery!!!
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby gvan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:53 am

I believe our restrictions are that they won't allow intended disk flight to cross a path, correct?

These are some ideas off the top of my head. Some of these wouldn't be as good as the current locations, but would add some variety
#7 Elevated ?
#9 slightly right of the tree and maybe 1 or 2 new trees planted.
#12 slightly right behind the tree
#14 straight off the tee behind the trees at the bottom of the hill (sweet little s-curve)
#15 100 feet right and a bit longer.
#16 50 feet ahead, maybe a bit left toward the #12 teepad
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Can't Hit Open Putts » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:02 am

Trees and shrubbery:
A line of trees between 9 & 10 or a double line (1 high on the hill, 1 low) turning 10 into more of a tunnel shot.
Bradford pears grow quickly and there are some already at the park.
#11 close to the teepad along the right side of the fairway forcing a righty to throw anhyzer.

Here's a radical idea. Tee from #3's pad to #4's basket. Eliminate #4 (does Lenora need another Hyzer shot?? Plus it's the second most dangerous hole for walkers.)Add the elliminated hole after #8 shooting into the trees across the path. Lenora could use a little more tree play.

The way Lenora is set up I could see adding shorter teepads for #'s 6, 7, and 8 instead of different pin placements. Allthough Gvan's idea for an elevated tee on #7 is perfect! A longer woods placement on #15 would be good if there is enough room so as not to go OB onto private property.

Probably not a good idea but I like it: Supersized (is that trademarked yet?) #18 throwing from across the pond.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby billnchristy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:51 pm

Building off of CHOPs idea, if you eliminate 4 you could put existing 4s or new 3s basket past the mando pecan trees on the new 3 adding some new treachery. I still like the shrubbers too. :P

I like the idea of a new woods hole too.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Woodrow » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:25 pm

What about all of that area in front of and behind the water park? Eh?
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby gvan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:33 pm

Baby steps :)

This is all good discussion, and rethinking the layout at Lenora has value in the long term, but what we got permission for this time is alternate pins.

I'd love to see action on the waterpark side of the path. There are some good design opportunities there. I know Dollar has a few ideas in that regard.

I wonder if we could use the pool as a waterhazard... :wink:
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Can't Hit Open Putts » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:42 pm

Woodrow wrote:What about all of that area in front of and behind the water park? Eh?


I have scouted out several holes through the area behind the pool. 3 good holes that would split from 13 and hook back to 14 Might be able to put in another 9 if you use the land in the front. The only issues, besides getting use of the land, are the flow of the course and how it impacts the walking paths.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Corndawg13 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:53 pm

Expecting slack for this, but it's whatever......

Lenora is a park most say, "I played it once, and that will be it for me." I have held to it and so have others I know. What Lenora needs is a re-thinking of sorts rather then a re-design for now as mentioned above. How about making the par's REALISITC. No par 4's out there realy. Maybe one or two. Definitley need to put baskets in the tree areas, possibly force mando's to alter shot lines. There are a lot of good holes there when you play them all as three. What is the hole where you throw uphill and it is marked as a par 4? One of the first five or six holes I think it was, elevated basket there would be like a stairway to heaven hole. My suggestions are usually not considered good by peeps on here. but I have no problem throwing in my ideas. Get Dollar to give his ideas.

Keep up the good work GDGO!! I am jealous, hopefully if Dawson COUNTY get the ball rolling the DDGO will be badass too!!

I would play Lenora more if it were closer to me, it is a great park to work on your game. See you guys at WO!!!
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby billnchristy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:57 am

Lenora seems like a place to pull a "Winthrop" during a tourney and make a false island or two, lots of OB barriers and whatnot.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Funky Bobby J » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:46 am

Corndawg13 wrote:Expecting slack for this, but it's whatever......


It's flack that you will catch for your course ideas - slack is what we cut you for being a noob and us not busting on your course ideas...for future reference...they rhyme and that can be confusing for some... :roll:
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby djester » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:55 am

I don't see a need for alternate positions at Lenora on most holes. You'll still be throwing into a field whether the basket is more to the left or right.
I like to play Lenora and I have never wanted a different pin location (except when I make a bad drive).
Bills idea about roped OB and such is really good, I think it would be nice to have that sort of thing for tournament action, but any other time, it would be a hassle for the mowers.
The best thing would be to add trees to line fairways and make flight paths obvious.

I won't complain of having alternate pin positions, I just don't see a need for them.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby billnchristy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:46 am

I agree because like you said, it is still a field shot one way or the other.

Lenora is a great place to practice because you don't pay dearly for mistakes and it will be a fun place for the league but beyond that and doing major alterations for tourney play, it is what it is...which isn't bad...just not great.

It is one of my favorite spring/early summer late afternoon destinations where it is still mildly cool and sunny until past 8pm...and will probably be a good place to get away from the Alex crowds this summer too.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Can't Hit Open Putts » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:22 pm

I'd have to agree with Josh on the alternate pins. Shorter tee pads would effectively change the course without disturbing the flow of the course. I still like the idea of a longer #15 in the woods because Lenora is virtually devoid of them. I still stand by eliminating #4 and turning #3 into a harder duece. An elevated #7 would draw attention to the course from the path and the road. As long as it was done right, it could make it a little more enjoyable then chuck it as far as can then lay up for the easy 3. Adding trees to define fairways and alter the existing hyzermania is the best way to improve the course.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Big Red » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:37 pm

With a 100% redesign Lenora could be a really good course. Aside from that some better pin positions could make for a much better course. The one that really comes to mind is number one. If a pin position was put near 18's tee pad or past it that would be a reall good hole. It should have been put there to start with. Another tee pad could be made for 18 on the other side of the lake making that hole something of interest. As a matter of fact you could make 18 into probably at least a 500 foot hole doing that and bring the water into play. If disc golfers would get over the idea that courses can never be redesigned we actually have some really good courses in Atlanta.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby billnchristy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:59 pm

I don't think its disc golfers, more like the counties that own the courses.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Big Red » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:10 pm

Are you saying that the county would object to a redesign that would cost very little considering all the equipment is already bought and paid for? Repouring tee pads would really be the only cost and that wouldn't even be necessary right away. When was the last time someone attempted to redesign a course around here? It's never happened as far as I know.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby djester » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:46 pm

Please remember that there are walking trails and playgrounds at the park as well as lakes for families to fish/throw rocks in. If you don't like the design of Lenora, go to one of the other 40-something parks in Georgia.
Lenora is a stand-alone park in a way that no other park resembles it in a big way it is good for what it is, a place to play a round of golf and not have to worry about shanking a shot and paying for it. It doesn't need a re-design or anything drastic to make it enjoyable. Just go there and expect a casual round of golf. It is one of the best courses around to practice different shots as you can study and learn without penalties.

Chop: not too sure about making 15 longer as there isn't much land straight into the woods there. Maybe down the left of the fairway and into the little cut out, but then it brings the walking path into play.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby billnchristy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:30 pm

Cantcha go right?
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Can't Hit Open Putts » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:23 pm

Josh- I was thinking 10-11 O-clock from the original pin and into the woods to avoid the path. I know there's not alot of room but #15 is the only hole that has trees near the basket so...

Bill- Going right brings the path into play and its on a blind curve as well! I could see a jogger getting a disc facial eventually.

Big Red- Although its nowhere near the best course in the area, it plays well. It is what it is, a wide open track to bomb drives and practice wind putting. JP Moseley is a virtual redesign as is Deerlick. You want to talk about a course that is in need of a redsign, go out to Hurricane Shoals. That is a waste of a beautiful piece of land!!
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Big Red » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:48 pm

I like Lenora and always have but it should be redesigned to be better. There is no logical reason not to do that. It's this mindset among others that is holding back the Atlanta disc golf scene. I forgot about Stockbridge being a redesign but it proves my point. The original course was a lot like Lenora so why was it redesigned? The product of that redesign is I think the best course in Atlanta. Why are bad to mediocre courses acceptable for the sake of sentiment? It doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby billnchristy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:55 pm

Bill- Going right brings the path into play and its on a blind curve as well! I could see a jogger getting a disc facial eventually.


Guess it has been too long since I have played there...
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby gvan » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:14 pm

I've not been playing long enough to be sentimental about Lenora. I have, however, spoken to the "powers that be" at the county and the GDGO BOD has a good idea of what we can do now, and what we can do once we have built up some gravitas with GCPR.

We have a great reputation with the county and are working on building that up. For example, they just asked us to run a tournament for them (proceeds to charity). Vicki is heading that up and we will benefit from that. We have taken on the task of obtaining and installing replacement chains on the baskets that are rusting.

We are systematically being faithful of the small things so they will trust us do the big things without a lot of scrutiny and convincing later. We won't all agree on the speed, nor all the tasks, but hopefully will be heading in the right direction.

I once thought Lenora should stay the way it is because it's a great learning course. However, it turns out that all the newer players are at the Alex and most people at Lenora are seasoned players enjoying a less crowded field. =-)
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby djester » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:53 pm

Big Red wrote:I like Lenora and always have but it should be redesigned to be better. There is no logical reason not to do that. It's this mindset among others that is holding back the Atlanta disc golf scene. I forgot about Stockbridge being a redesign but it proves my point. The original course was a lot like Lenora so why was it redesigned? The product of that redesign is I think the best course in Atlanta. Why are bad to mediocre courses acceptable for the sake of sentiment? It doesn't make any sense.

It's funny that you have nothing to add except going on "this mindset" BS that you always bring up. I am all for a redesign of a course but doing it to Lenora doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't think I'll be able to sleep at night knowing that "us" golfers are holding back disc golf in the area. If I only knew that a redesign would solve all of the "Atlanta disc golf scene" problems. :|
If you feel that Lenora could be redesigned, feel free to work something up and give an example instead of saying that "people" are holding back the "scene" in the area. It makes no sense Aaron.
To do away with the concrete pads that are there, then dig up all the baskets & tee signs would be quite a task itself. Then go back and pour new pads and install the baskets all for the sake of still having to throw in a field just seems like a lot of work to have different points of throwing.

Jp Moseley had tons of land (and still does) so it made sense to use the land available..... where is the land at Lenora? I don't think the parks would allow us to venture out beyond the current land used now (except maybe the newly acquired fields at the water park). Lets see your design for Lenora.... I'm open to the idea, I just don't think it would be a smart thing to do logistically.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Can't Hit Open Putts » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:19 pm

It has nothing to do with sentimentality. It has to do with the fact that the course is in the ground and uses the park provided grounds in a well laid out, albeit repetitious, track. Why reinvent the wheel when some well placed trees, minor alterations and alternate pads can better the existing course. If anyone can be sentimental about this course it's me. Before it was even a thought I was out there chucking my discs while my wife walked the path. I was there placing the original tee markers with Jim Warner. It was the first course I played with my kids at and other than Wills, I have logged more holes at Lenora than any other. It needs to change, but not be redesigned. I am the first to admit that it is a mediocre at best course(because of the repetition) but the layout is sound when you look at the land. The more cost effective, less intrusive way to improve the course is the addition of trees, tee pads and alternate pins.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby billnchristy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Agreed. Without impeding on other park activities you aren't going to add much variety.

Some well placed bushes and trees will make the course that much better....and that being said I enjoy it anyways.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Corndawg13 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:00 pm

I played flyboy today and have played a good deal of courses now. I do not think my ideas are crazy or dumb. Sorry for keying 's' as opposed to 'f', can't believe that was the purpose for your post.

Anyway.....

Lenora is a course good for beginners with a lot of potential for pros to like. I agree with CHOP here that alterations to the existing course would suit it better. Making the pars mostly 3's is a good start. Possibly adding some tee pads with gravel if need be to elongate some holes. Planting trees or shrubs in the fairways and having them serve as OB markers is a great idea. I think the GDGO is LUCKY to have the entusiasm coming from P & R and working with them to always improve the courses should be done. Something simple as putting in trees and marking them as mando's to alter shots would be great.

Here are my ideas:
What if you put two trees on hole one about 30 feet out and about 30 feet apart making a double mando to the outside of the trees? That way you have an instant either hyzer or anny mando. Like the OB spot at ERP. Hole 2 basket in woods. 3 in the trees. 6 could use some trees for sure. Maybe put shrubs down 7 fariway on both sides making OB. 8 behind the tree a bit. 9 farther back and in-between the trees. put ten to the left on the slope of the hill. 12 to the right bringing the trees into play. Put 15 back in the woods or up against the treeline. Put 18 back across the pond and put a tree smack dab in the middle of the fairway.

All the DGCR reviews are stating it is easy and boring, mix it up, it would not be that difficult.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby djester » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:36 pm

Bobby... all the holes at Lenora are par 3's. The signs are for beginners to give an idea of scores to keep. Everyone I know play the course as a par 54.

It has been said that the parks do not want trees in direct line of throws so putting them in the fairways would go against that. It would be a good idea to line/divide some fairways and/or make a few holes shorter like Chop said.

Chop (and anyone else)....let me know if you want to walk the course (and play) to get ideas of new pin placements. We could make a simple map to have an idea and to have a slate to make changes if someone has a better idea. I live 10 minutes from there, but I work almost till dark lately and some weekends but I'll try to make time to get out there.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Corndawg13 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:47 pm

well alrighty, I play all holes as a 3 as well now. except for flyboy.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby djester » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:51 pm

what does flyboy play them as? :lol:
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Corndawg13 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:10 pm

haha, man that couse is awesome! :o

played nine holes with phil arthur, wow he is damn good.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Funky Bobby J » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:19 am

The patch of woods along 8's fairway is just screaming for a hole. I think that anything that you have to do that crosses over walking paths is a bad idea. There is a lot of traffic out there.

Longer pins for longer sake does not make the course more interesting. One of the things that I noticed about Perkerson this past weekend was that there seemed to be tweener shots that made me really think about what disc to throw (mid or fairway driver, fairway driver or distance driver). No doubt that you can dial the distance in over time. I think some well-placed trees could add something to the course. I do not think new pads are really necessary or that you will get the most bang for your buck. Some trees and new pin positions could go a long way. As to what CHOP said, it's a great trek to take the kids to.

Lenora will be okay if we can just keep Josh from holding disc golf back... He is ruining everything!!!
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Big Red » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:18 am

djester wrote:
Big Red wrote:I like Lenora and always have but it should be redesigned to be better. There is no logical reason not to do that. It's this mindset among others that is holding back the Atlanta disc golf scene. I forgot about Stockbridge being a redesign but it proves my point. The original course was a lot like Lenora so why was it redesigned? The product of that redesign is I think the best course in Atlanta. Why are bad to mediocre courses acceptable for the sake of sentiment? It doesn't make any sense.

It's funny that you have nothing to add except going on "this mindset" BS that you always bring up. I am all for a redesign of a course but doing it to Lenora doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't think I'll be able to sleep at night knowing that "us" golfers are holding back disc golf in the area. If I only knew that a redesign would solve all of the "Atlanta disc golf scene" problems. :|
If you feel that Lenora could be redesigned, feel free to work something up and give an example instead of saying that "people" are holding back the "scene" in the area. It makes no sense Aaron.
To do away with the concrete pads that are there, then dig up all the baskets & tee signs would be quite a task itself. Then go back and pour new pads and install the baskets all for the sake of still having to throw in a field just seems like a lot of work to have different points of throwing.

Jp Moseley had tons of land (and still does) so it made sense to use the land available..... where is the land at Lenora? I don't think the parks would allow us to venture out beyond the current land used now (except maybe the newly acquired fields at the water park). Lets see your design for Lenora.... I'm open to the idea, I just don't think it would be a smart thing to do logistically.


I am not going to waste time drawing up a redesign when it will never happen. Let me ask you this, what would happen if I alone went to Gwinnett county and got the permission and all of the funding, new tee pads and everything else to redesign the course and hired Greg Hosfeld and John Houck to come do it, how do you think the disc golf community would react to that? The answer to this question is the "mindset" I speak of. It doesn't matter but at least the lurkers out there who may be wondering about some of the same things know that at least one person doesn't agree with how everything is done. Am I always right? Of course not but at least I am trying to think outside the box. For the record I do think the course can be improved greatly with some new pin positions and with some trees planted. I hope this can come to fruition.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Funky Bobby J » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:22 am

I am not going to waste time drawing up a redesign when it will never happen. Let me ask you this, what would happen if I alone went to Gwinnett county and got the permission and all of the funding, new tee pads and everything else to redesign the course and hired Greg Hosfeld and John Houck to come do it, how do you think the disc golf community would react to that? .[/quote]

We'd say, "why the hell did you waste all that time and money on Lenora. If you are going to bring Houck down here, let's give him something to work with..."
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Big Red » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:24 am

Funky Bobby J wrote:I am not going to waste time drawing up a redesign when it will never happen. Let me ask you this, what would happen if I alone went to Gwinnett county and got the permission and all of the funding, new tee pads and everything else to redesign the course and hired Greg Hosfeld and John Houck to come do it, how do you think the disc golf community would react to that? .


We'd say, "why the hell did you waste all that time and money on Lenora. If you are going to bring Houck down here, let's give him something to work with..."[/quote]

It's a hypothetical you pick the course and I doubt anyone would say that no matter where it was.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby djester » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:47 am

Big Red wrote:
djester wrote:
Big Red wrote:I like Lenora and always have but it should be redesigned to be better. There is no logical reason not to do that. It's this mindset among others that is holding back the Atlanta disc golf scene. I forgot about Stockbridge being a redesign but it proves my point. The original course was a lot like Lenora so why was it redesigned? The product of that redesign is I think the best course in Atlanta. Why are bad to mediocre courses acceptable for the sake of sentiment? It doesn't make any sense.

It's funny that you have nothing to add except going on "this mindset" BS that you always bring up. I am all for a redesign of a course but doing it to Lenora doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't think I'll be able to sleep at night knowing that "us" golfers are holding back disc golf in the area. If I only knew that a redesign would solve all of the "Atlanta disc golf scene" problems. :|
If you feel that Lenora could be redesigned, feel free to work something up and give an example instead of saying that "people" are holding back the "scene" in the area. It makes no sense Aaron.
To do away with the concrete pads that are there, then dig up all the baskets & tee signs would be quite a task itself. Then go back and pour new pads and install the baskets all for the sake of still having to throw in a field just seems like a lot of work to have different points of throwing.

Jp Moseley had tons of land (and still does) so it made sense to use the land available..... where is the land at Lenora? I don't think the parks would allow us to venture out beyond the current land used now (except maybe the newly acquired fields at the water park). Lets see your design for Lenora.... I'm open to the idea, I just don't think it would be a smart thing to do logistically.


I am not going to waste time drawing up a redesign when it will never happen. Let me ask you this, what would happen if I alone went to Gwinnett county and got the permission and all of the funding, new tee pads and everything else to redesign the course and hired Greg Hosfeld and John Houck to come do it, how do you think the disc golf community would react to that? The answer to this question is the "mindset" I speak of. It doesn't matter but at least the lurkers out there who may be wondering about some of the same things know that at least one person doesn't agree with how everything is done. Am I always right? Of course not but at least I am trying to think outside the box. For the record I do think the course can be improved greatly with some new pin positions and with some trees planted. I hope this can come to fruition.

Excluding the last part....
Isn't it ironic that this "mindset" that you have is the real reason that nothing will ever change? !! ? It's funny that you call out the atlanta area golfers when you are guilty of the very thing you accuse them of.
I know you are a smart guy, you should have seen this coming.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Big Red » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:03 am

I'm not smart enough to have any idea what you are talking about?
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby brick » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:41 am

I have noticed the dynamic of players in Atlanta has changed significantly over the last several years, and continues to change for the better. I do believe quality changes can be made and supported at a course like Lenora. While some of the old "mindsets" still linger, the expression of opinions and facts is definitely more accepted now than the closed-minded, one-sided thinking that used to be more prevalent. I see more individuals being proactive in their involvement. Also, I have seen the tournament scene change due to the involvement of our state coordinator, Keith Johnson.....this is concrete evidence that you can change something if you want to. Though Keith may have been originally frowned upon by some for his "extreme" involvement or excentricism, one can not deny the improvement he has created in the Atlanta tournament scene. This can happen in respect to the Atlanta disc golf courses as well. Plus, one should never underestimate the stimulation of excentricity!

So, with regard to Lenora Park, I feel if you want changes then make them happen! Some won't like it at first or maybe ever. If you really want a course redesign talk to the powers that be, and do it. :D
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Wookie » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:46 am

Nah, he would rather just tell everyone else that their opinions and ideas are wrong, which is why disc golf is never going to amount to squat, yet he still plays...
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Big Red » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:53 am

I'm not saying everyone's opinions and ideas are wrong, I am saying the dogmatic following of those ideas is wrong and I am suggesting openness to new ideas instead of doing the same old things. You aren't going to see me go against the wishes of the majority when it comes to something like trying to redesign a course. It just frustrates me that so many things seem to be sacred and untouchable in this game to the point where we can't even have dialogue about it. That's all.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Corndawg13 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:27 pm

I agree with Big Red and am ready to take the FLACK for it. Why not change things, make things better, more enjoyable for all players, WHY NOT?

I have faith in the GDGO and will bet you that Lenora will change within six months. I just think the best way to please all with older courses is to just change pins around, plant trees, create OB's and use Mando's. I too agree that part of the fun at Perkerson is the "tweener" shots. What I love about disc golf and disc golf courses is being able to stand there and go "hmmm, what SHOULD I throw!"

Lenora will change, I bet you. AM I CORRECT Team Alex and GDGO??

Changing things are tough, I would know, I am trying to put a course in Dawson COUNTY and excite the FCDGC. It will come!
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby billnchristy » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:22 pm

I dont think people are so much resistant to change but given the constraints of the land moving teeboxes and pin positions will result in Lenora park just like the old one but in a different place. Adding bushes and trees, adding mandos and OB like you said is really the way to go...otherwise you spend a buttload of money to change a shoot over that hill to that hill shot to a shoot down that hill and over the side of that hill shot....and really, what's the difference.

I do agree that something in that chunk of woods would be awesome but the flow would have to be maintained.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby djester » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:22 pm

Big Red wrote:I am not going to waste time drawing up a redesign when it will never happen. Let me ask you this, what would happen if I alone went to Gwinnett county and got the permission and all of the funding, new tee pads and everything else to redesign the course and hired Greg Hosfeld and John Houck to come do it, how do you think the disc golf community would react to that? The answer to this question is the "mindset" I speak of. It doesn't matter but at least the lurkers out there who may be wondering about some of the same things know that at least one person doesn't agree with how everything is done. Am I always right? Of course not but at least I am trying to think outside the box. For the record I do think the course can be improved greatly with some new pin positions and with some trees planted. I hope this can come to fruition.

djester wrote:Excluding the last part....
Isn't it ironic that this "mindset" that you have is the real reason that nothing will ever change? !! ? It's funny that you call out the atlanta area golfers when you are guilty of the very thing you accuse them of.
I know you are a smart guy, you should have seen this coming.

Big Red wrote:I'm not smart enough to have any idea what you are talking about?

I couldn't underline or mark in red on my blackberry so it kinda didn't come across clearly.... can you see what I mean now?

sheesh....I think that is the most I've ever tried to quote and patch together :?
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Vicki » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:18 am

Wow, that's a lot of ideas and the GDGO BOD will take them all into consideration. Thank you all for your suggestions.

Now, to calm any fears.....Lenora is not going to be "re-designed". "Tweaked" might be a better word. Small changes here and there, a few new pin placements (carefully selected), small foliage planted (that will take years to mature), possibly one elevated basket. Any and all work done will come out of the GDGO's budget, which is not unlimited. Any new tee pads will have to wait until Gwinnett County is able to fund them.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby $Dollar$ » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:56 am

Corndawg13 wrote:Expecting slack for this, but it's whatever......

you called it...
Corndawg13 wrote:Lenora is a park most say, "I played it once, and that will be it for me." I have held to it and so have others I know.

This is how I (and LOTS of other pros) feel about CP. The only reason I EVER play there is bc Keith and Rand run AWESOME tournaments there.

Corndawg13 wrote:Keep up the good work GDGO!!
Amen!!! You guys really keep the wheel turning :D

No hard feelings Bobby Corn, we both are in love with courses that kinda suck when it comes to current courses
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby $Dollar$ » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:36 am

If its possible, I sort-of agree with Josh, Chop, Gerrit, and Aaron. I dont think that there are many good places for new pins. But a few in the right places would help the course. I think that a complete redesign could make the course a ton better, but its probably not worth the money and trouble. Chop is right when he talks about the flow of the course being very good, and not wanting that to change.

But when Gerrit said that LP is just where the more seasoned players go to avoid the traffic, it made me think. If LP is not being used by many new players, then its not serving its purpose. Its wide open and thats ok because it helps the new players, but if there are no new players there then something needs to change.

I love LP, but change may be a good thing
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby gvan » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:37 pm

$Dollar$ wrote:... But when Gerrit said that LP is just where the more seasoned players go to avoid the traffic, it made me think. If LP is not being used by many new players, then its not serving its purpose. Its wide open and thats ok because it helps the new players, but if there are no new players there then something needs to change.


Just my personal observation. No scientific research involved. It's quite posible that newer players are there on days when I am not. I'm usually at Lenora on Mondays and Thursdays only.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Big Red » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:16 am

djester wrote:
Big Red wrote:I am not going to waste time drawing up a redesign when it will never happen. Let me ask you this, what would happen if I alone went to Gwinnett county and got the permission and all of the funding, new tee pads and everything else to redesign the course and hired Greg Hosfeld and John Houck to come do it, how do you think the disc golf community would react to that? The answer to this question is the "mindset" I speak of. It doesn't matter but at least the lurkers out there who may be wondering about some of the same things know that at least one person doesn't agree with how everything is done. Am I always right? Of course not but at least I am trying to think outside the box. For the record I do think the course can be improved greatly with some new pin positions and with some trees planted. I hope this can come to fruition.

djester wrote:Excluding the last part....
Isn't it ironic that this "mindset" that you have is the real reason that nothing will ever change? !! ? It's funny that you call out the atlanta area golfers when you are guilty of the very thing you accuse them of.
I know you are a smart guy, you should have seen this coming.

Big Red wrote:I'm not smart enough to have any idea what you are talking about?

I couldn't underline or mark in red on my blackberry so it kinda didn't come across clearly.... can you see what I mean now?

sheesh....I think that is the most I've ever tried to quote and patch together :?


I am not commenting on disc golf communities work ethic nor have I ever. You must have missed my point I guess. The reason I even mention any of my thoughts on here is to see what other disc golfers as a whole will say. If I thought that any significant percentage of disc golfers would support me in redesigning Lenora I would provide you with a redesigned map. If I thought I could complete the project anyway without being completely ostracized and demonized in the game then I would get started. You see Josh virtually nothing about how things are done in disc golf makes any sense to me. The list of things that I think should be changed or done differently is massive. I think tournaments should be done completely differently, I think virtually every course in Atlanta should be redesigned, I even think this message board should be administered differently but I know I am a vast minority on all this. Occasionally I get involved in a discussion like this one to get a feel for how others respond to my view, I argue my point for a little while and then I let it go. So far I have not found any support for any of my ideas so they must be wrong or at least unpopular. I just want to clarify though that I am only criticizing or commenting on the disc golf "mindset" not work ethic.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Corndawg13 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:33 am

No hard feelings at all Dollar. What do you guys not like about CP?? Maybe a new CP thread reguarding these issues is more suitable??
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Corndawg13 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:40 am

New CP thread reguarding this issue directed to CP. CP can EASILLY be changed if the correct people agree to do so. Nathan already says he would re-do signs and it is as simple out there as moving teePADS and baskets. So, in order to not take away from this thread, go post at the CP thread please.
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Re: Alternate Pin Positions

Postby Subicon » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:46 pm

I have only been playing disc golf for about eight months. I learned how to play at Lenora and I really like the course. I play LP 2~3 times a week because I only live ten minutes away. I wouldn't mind if there were some alternate pins, but I don't think it needs a major redesign. If I want to play some woods, I'll go to Alexander, JP Mosley or any of the other more technical courses around Atlanta. Lenora is fun and relaxing to play for me because it is quiet and not very crowded.
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