Eves Rd Complete Street Project

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Eves Rd Complete Street Project

Postby Northside99 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:39 pm

David Dittmar - Looking at the map of this and taking off my disc golf glasses it certainly looks like this would provide much easier access to two large sub divisions, Woodfield, Glen Eves and the Autum Ridge apartment complex as well as other residential areas on Eves road. There is probably several million dollars in property taxes paid by homeowners in those neighborhoods.

So there is a large benefit to residents in the area. One angle I'd use is asking if funds can be included from the bonds to be used to completely redesign and redo the entire course if this project moves forward...

http://wikimapia.org/...
Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world!
wikimapia.org
Wikimapia is an online editable map - you can describe any place on Earth. Or just surf the map discovering tonns of already marked places.
January 21 at 12:37pm · Like

Rob Attaway - David Dittmar that is true, but there is plenty of land on the other side of the road
January 21 at 12:39pm · Like

David Dittmar - Where are you referring to Rob???
January 21 at 12:44pm · Like

Rob Attaway - If any changes to EVEs road is to take place they can only take place from HB up to the first subdivision. There are apartments and houses right after that. Therefore, the improvements are likely limited to that short stretch of road. Based on the map overhead if any changes in the road need to take place there is ample land on the west side of Eves road that have no houses, etc there. The park could remain intact.
January 21 at 12:46pm · Like

Dustin Penwright - That is not park land Rob. It would have to be purchased and repurposed from the commercial zoning to which it is being sold as. Also, if this was to redesign the park including the west side of Eves Rd, this would make golfers have to cross that busy road to play the course. I know I wouldn't want to try and cross that road between 4pm and 7pm to play!
January 21 at 12:49pm · Like

David Dittmar - Isn't the goal to provide access to the park from Eves, did I miss something?

I don't see how land on the other side of Eves helps and its most likely not park land either...
January 21 at 12:51pm · Like

Rob Attaway - I am specifically talking about the changes to eves road. The rest of the park changes are up to the parks and rec dept. If disc golfers cannot show that we bring value to the park then I am sure ERP Disc Golf wont be there much longer. The road can buy the land. No point in wasting park money for road improvements
January 21 at 12:51pm · Like

Rob Attaway - Hum... How is there not access now?
January 21 at 12:51pm · Like

David Dittmar - Road entrance to ERP from Eves, is there one? I can't see it on wikimapia, it looks like you have to go out to Holcomb Bridge, take a right and come around into ERP...

I'm not familiar with the area, just looking at the satellite overhead...
January 21 at 12:53pm · Like

Rob Attaway - There is a parking lot and a walk in trail. I use it all the time to start at hole 11 or 12
January 21 at 12:54pm · Unlike · 1

Dustin Penwright - There will be an intersection and a paved parking lot off Eves Rd where golfers now park to start on holes 11 or 12. Honestly, I park there nearly every time I go to ERP now and start on hole 12. All the land across Eves Rd on the other side of the street from holes 14, 15 and 16's tee is currently available for sale commercially. That property runs a good long stretch down Holcomb Rd at Eves going west. And David if you go into the event and click on the link I posted it will show you the DOT visual submitted by engineers.
January 21 at 12:57pm · Like

David Dittmar - That's just for access to the course right, It looks like this project wants to provide traffic access to the entire park from Eves to benefit homeowners on that side of the park...
January 21 at 12:57pm · Like

Dustin Penwright - Correct. But I see it as being a local "cut through" for people wanting to go east on Holcomb Br that are too impatient to wait at the light at Eves and Holcomb during peak traffic times
January 21 at 12:59pm · Edited · Like · 1

David Dittmar - Dustin, I am looking at thishttp://www.roswellgov.com/documentcenter/view/6286, is the yellow a road? Looks like it and it looks to me the intent it to provide them road access to the park.

You bring up a good point though Dustin, I'd specifically bring up people cutting through the park to avoid traffic...
http://roswellgov.com/documentcenter/view/6286
www.roswellgov.com
January 21 at 1:00pm · Like

Dustin Penwright - Yes. The yellow is a road that will continue out of the parking lot by the tennis courts where it now dead ends.
January 21 at 1:01pm · Like

David Dittmar - Of course that does not look like it would help anyone in traffic to be honest. Looks to me that this is specifically for traffic access to the park itself from the neighborhoods on Eves...
January 21 at 1:02pm · Like

Dustin Penwright - Correct. It is suppose to make access easier to the park from those subdivisions. Stop light, cross walks and connection to the walking trail that encompasses ERP
January 21 at 1:03pm · Like

David Dittmar - Just get Thomas Lackey to buy all of the commercial land and install a course on it...
January 21 at 1:04pm · Like · 1

Dustin Penwright - Ah-hahahaha!
January 21 at 1:04pm · Like · 1

Scott Walker - The Eves Road Complete Street project involves right-of-way, drainage, sidewalk, bike lane, and other improvements along the entire length of Eves Road, from Holcomb Bridge to Riverside. Most of those are designed to be able to be completed without additional right-of-way acquisition. The original conceptual plan included a roundabout at Eves Circle, into which an exit-only road from the park would feed. This would also have entailed relocating the existing parking area on Eves Road. The roundabout was eliminated from the funded plan as being too expensive. But the idea of a road from the parking area near the tennis courts survived. And no one from the DOT has answered my questions about whether that's still envisioned as a one-way exit only route or as a two-way alternative entry. The only rational benefit I've heard for the road is that it would allow an alternative route out in the event of an emergency that closes Fouts Road. One intent that's been mentioned in recent materials is "improving access to the park from Eves Road" -- that's a double-edged sword from my perspective, as it would introduce through traffic (and more than I think the DOT may have anticipated) into areas of the park that are heavily used and quite close to the right of way. That decision may come down to whether the need to drop Megan off at her dance class at the Rec Center without getting on Holcomb Brige outweighs the fact that the dozens of people who walk the trails every day will now have to cross a through street twice to may a full circuit.
January 21 at 1:09pm · Like

Dustin Penwright - Even though there is a stop sign and quite a few MASSIVE speed breakers through the park, it would not stop people from cutting through once they realize they have a way around the Eves/Holcomb intersection. Especially because the light at Eves/Holcomb is a short light and only allows a dozen or so cars through each cycle
January 21 at 1:16pm · Like · 3

Scott Walker - Dustin -- yep. Like I've said before, my neighbors in Twelvestones have mostly said that while they don't think there's a need for the road, if it's there they'll probably use it to cut through over to Eves/Riverside, etc., since the light at Fouts and HBR has an even shorter green/longer red from Fouts than the one at Eves. I don't believe that the city has accurately projected the amount of through traffic (vs. traffic to/from the park) that route would get, no matter how many "no through traffic" signs they put up. That's why, if the intent is primarily to allow for an alternative emergency exit route, improving the walking path to support vehicle use from the parking lot between the maintenance shed and the tennis courts up along the edge of Autumn Ridge and into the existing parking lot, but making it closed to traffic under ordinary circumstances, would be a good alternative that would avoid most of the adverse consequences of a full-on road, even a one-way one.
January 21 at 1:24pm · Edited · Unlike · 2

David Dittmar - Bumping this up because it is today...
12 hours ago · Like

Thomas Lackey - This road is going to increase danger throughout the park and neighborhoods. That alone is cause for vetoing their road project.
12 hours ago · Edited · Like

Scott Walker - Thomas Lackey -- I believe you are right in that. What I'm hoping to do this evening is get the city DOT representatives to explain first what the rationale for making the road part of the overall project was in the first place, and to explain what they have done to assess the impact of the current plan. I want to know what they believe about it before trying to counter that -- I don't want to start off with an argument against something that they haven't said yet. But I do think there are rational and convincing arguments against just about every rationale/scenario I've been able to think up.
11 hours ago · Unlike · 2

Thomas Lackey - As you may have seen I tweeted it a minute ago, and so far it has already been retweeted by Atlanta Now, and a few other Real Estate firms. Hoping that it is getting a lot of exposure as we know the DOT is very stubborn, but with enough exposure maybe 1 or 2 important non-disc golfers will show up and voice their concerns about safety for the walkers and children throughout the area.
11 hours ago · Like

Scott Walker - Yep. There were articles/mentions of it in the two dead-tree weekly free papers, and last week and again today in the Roswell Patch online news site also.
11 hours ago · Like · 1

David Dittmar - Scott, the project map on this site definitely does not include a road. That looks like a sidewalk or trail, You may have posted something I missed on changes, but as it is shown on Roswell's site for the project it is not a road and does not connect all the way to the other side of the tennis courts. When was this changed?

Black should indicate paved areas and green apparently indicates sidewalk, nothing on the legend for orange...

http://www.roswellgov.com/index.aspx?NID=1552

City of Roswell, GA - Official Website - Infrastructure - $8.7 Million
www.roswellgov.com
Infrastructure-$8.7 Million
11 hours ago · Like

David Dittmar - Sorry, grey = sidewalk...
11 hours ago · Like

Scott Walker - Dave, neither that page nor that map have been updated in months. It still hadn't been updated when the parks guys told me that the plan for the road was back on the table and now funded, the Friday before Thanksgiving. The page specifically about the Eves Road Complete Street project originally had no more info than the one you linked to. The detail map, showing the road in yellow, wasn't posted online until after I had communicated with the city's transportation director and asked a number of questions about the plans, in mid -December. As soon as that went up, I posted about it on the RDGC FB page. Since then, the text on that page has been updated a couple of times with slightly more info, including explicit mention of "vehicular access" between Eves Road and the park. Apparently, reporters for the local newspapers/web sites have been able to eliciit a little more info than I could from the city, as their articles on the public meeting include the details that the road will be 18 ft wide and approximately 600 feet long. In addition to the info online, trees in planned right of way area have been flagged with blue tape again recently, apparently as an indication of the anticipated route. I'm basing my assessment of the potential impact to the course on a combination of those sources.
11 hours ago · Like · 1

David Dittmar - Gotcha, I think you need to ask for the DOT study of adding that road, assuming that there is one.

Also, is the RDGC page a group page?
10 hours ago · Like

Dustin Penwright - Scott - I got out of work early so I will be at the meeting this evening. Is there any paperwork I need to bring with me or have you got what we need for discussion?
8 hours ago · Like

Scott Walker - Dustin Penwright: just bring yourself and a spirit of constructive engagement. Tonight's mainly about learning the details of the plans and subtly demonstrating by sheer number of attendees that there's a lot of interest in what happens. Any fight, if one is necessary, will happen in other venues later (Transportation Commission, Rec Commission, City Council). Whatever education of the parties involved we can do will help, as long as it's not overly confrontational.
7 hours ago · Unlike · 2

Rob Attaway - I would like someone to note that if the topic of no money for the disc golf course is an issue then what about the walking trail or the dog park or pavilion use that does not require a reservation? I do not think there are groups that provide free upkeep to those amenities.
7 hours ago · Like

Rob Attaway - In terms of revenue for the park
7 hours ago · Like

Rob Attaway - would they charge for bike lane use if that amenity was installed on eves?
7 hours ago · Like

Scott Walker - Rob -- well, the walking paths are affected by the proposal in at least two places. The dog park happens to be in the clear. Just like the disc golf course, the RRPD would rather have them than not. But when it comes to how far they're willing to go to fight another city department in order to save them, whether or not revenue-producing programs are affected has a lot to do with it. It'd be surprising if there's another park feature in the city that supports as many active users as the dg course for as little ongoing cost to the city. But that's not the issue here. The issue is that someone somewhere thinks they're solving a problem for at least some residents of the city. In my opinion, they're doing so while causing bigger problems (traffic, safety, etc.) for others, and may be doing so in ignorance of the effect it may have on existing facilities (walking trails, playgrounds, dg course). Making sure those factors are fully considered is my main objective tonight.
6 hours ago · Like · 2

Emeline Renz - how did the meeting go? I had an appointment else I would have been there.
2 hours ago · Like

Dustin Penwright - I want to thank Scott Walker, Craig Nettleship, Brett Porter and Andrew T. Lofstrand for joining me tonight at the public meeting to "Save East Roswell Park"! We were able to get our points across to quite a few different reps with the City of Roswell. There is still some leg work to do from here.
about an hour ago · Like · 2

David Dittmar - Thanks Dustin for the update...
about an hour ago · Like

Craig Nettleship - Certainly more to talk about and we will have to be diligent and make it to the future committee meetings. However, after 45 mins of cornering the DOT engineering director we have the commitment for a traffic study of the proposed road and a feasibility study which entails routing the road over the existing walking path to the left of #11 teepad. If the road is routed in this way only hole 11 is impacted.

As more meetings are scheduled it's critically important for all of us that play ERP regularly to show up. The shear numbers of comment cards completed and warm bodies standing in support has a more powerful impact than what I realized.
about an hour ago · Unlike · 3

Dustin Penwright - Exactly! I was told that of the 37 comment cards that were submitted through the Roswell.gov website 34 of them were from Disc Golfers! 3 individuals including the Transportation Director (yes Scott Walker he showed up right after you left) never considered how this was going to impact the course. One of the reps thought this was only going to affect 2 holes and had never considered it trampling 17 and 18. As Craig said, they are going to draw up another plan that takes the "access road" to the left of 11 and around the backside of the tennis courts. This is FAR from over but the 5 of us gave them a hearty earful for 2 hours (along with concerned neighboring residents) about this connection being more impactful than they had thought. Scott will continue to keep us updated on meeting times and progress to this project.
about an hour ago · Like

Dustin Penwright - Where were you Thomas Lackey? I see that a round got posted with Watson from ERP this afternoon.... what's up with that?!?!?
50 minutes ago · Like

Thomas Lackey - Ryan Watson and I played ERP with Mitchell Summers, and then Ryan called Scott Walker and asked him if it was necessary for us to be there. We chose to then go play a big bag tag round at Oregon with Austin Lytle, Matt Versola, Kevin DuBose, Adam Ray, Zak Holt, David Simanski, and Brandon Pittman. I'm sorry we didn't stay. I heard we could have given some valuable insight, but it appears Rob Attaway, Craig Nettleship, you and others were able to say the things we would have reiterated.
44 minutes ago · Like

Dustin Penwright - Ok. Just thought that since you said you were going to be there you would have been there thats all.
42 minutes ago · Like

Thomas Lackey - That was Why I asked Ryan to meet me at ERP, I was looking for a 2 birds in one stone type of thing. Woods Practice and the Meeting, since I'm playing Warner all day Saturday, but I had a lot of fun and somehow managed to neither move up nor move down in tags.... LOL
40 minutes ago · Like

Dustin Penwright - I get it, just figured that since you said you were going to be there with such fire and emotion that you would have put golf aside for an afternoon and come voice your imput. But again... no big deal.
37 minutes ago · Like

Scott Walker - The other guys have given a good update on the basics. I was the first one there and buttonholed the transportation engineering manager from the transportation dept for quite a while at the beginning. Also got a ton of face time with the chair of the R...See More
28 minutes ago · Like

Andrew Fish - Once again, this is a great conversation that will be lost forever because FB doesn't archive well. Lackey, don't bitch about courses, designs, or formats if you don't put any legwork into improvements. Guys, thanks for going representing interests. Sucks that we're getting hosed in two parts of the park in the same year. Fish out, never to respond here again.
24 minutes ago · Unlike · 1

Dustin Penwright - Thanks Fish! May the Course be with You!
23 minutes ago · Like

Kay Johns - Scott Walker could just copy this Entire thread to the ERP thread on ADGO for archiving purposes Fish! Then nothing would be lost.
21 minutes ago · Unlike · 1

Thomas Lackey - I'm at a loss for words.... I do my best at recruiting players from all over the nation (sales being more of my forte) to come visit our courses and tournaments, I'm sorry to all that I wasn't there tonight.
17 minutes ago · Edited · Like

Scott Walker Key points:
1) There have been no studies or surveys done regarding either the need for or the prospective use of the road. A consultant decided it might be a good idea, and the transportation guys all agreed. So -- we can definitely press the point that they need to determine what the real impact would be.
2) I think both the transportation and rec representatives were surprised by the consistency with which they heard from everyone that a *lot* of people will use that road not only to get to/from Eves Road and the park, but also from Fouts Road (Twelvestones neighborhood AND the new library) to Eves Road. By midway through, I think they had realized they were underestimating the impact the road would have.
3) A number of non-disc golfers did show up (signin sheet had 26 names on it before Andrew Lofstrand signed in about 6:30, and of those fewer than 10 by my count were disc golfers). Many of them were people who use the park to walk and were opposed because of the negative effect on the walking paths.
4) The rec and parks folks would like an alternative way besides Fouts Road to evacuate the park in the event of a gas main break or other problem that would both close Fouts Road and require getting people out quickly. But they'd prefer a one-way, exit-only option, and wouldn't mind if that were available for emergency use only, as long as it can get a fire truck and other large emergency vehicles in and out.
5) Rec and parks definitely share our concern about the proximity of a through street to the play structure, to the effect on the walking paths and other rec facilities, including disc golf, etc.
6) Did I say already that I think we did ourselves a great service by having so many disc golfers show up, straight from work, and talk reasonably, intelligently, and informedly about the issues around the road, about the effect on the course, about the great stuff going on with disc golf in general and in Roswell specifically.

If this road doesn't kill the course, it might be the best thing that ever happened to us. We got face time with Joe Glover (Director of Recreation and Parks) and two Rec Commission members, including the chair, that we've been trying for years to get, and they also got a chance to meet and talk with several disc golfers at once. Thanks again to everyone who came out and who participated in the online discussion. Explaining things online gave us a chance to think through the issues and refine the message about them and then communicate that -- because we'd all had these online conversations the last few weeks, I think we all came across as informed, credible, reasonable, and we were consistent enough that the city reps heard the same concerns over and over again -- and they'll definitely know they have to address those issues to move this forward.
8 minutes ago · Unlike · 3

Dustin Penwright - Thomas Lackey, recruiting does nothing if you don't have courses for them to come play on... just sayin.
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Re: Eves Rd Complete Street Project

Postby Northside99 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:56 am

continued....

Thomas Lackey - True, but it's also a huge selling point for any business entity as far as revenue is concerned. We used to host the Atlanta Open at ERP which brought revenue to the surrounding businesses. So, if we were able to state some of the facts surrounding our "A/B" tiered events in which top pros and aspiring advanced ams travelled to Atlanta in order to play. This might also help influence the government. We all know money talks and bull walks. Again sales is my forte.

In regards to cleaning parks, if someone will let me use their bow saw, and allow me to go to work, I'll get rid of the fallen trees scattered throughout ERP. I'm across the street and it would be a win win for me and the park. I could relieve some stress, and the park would be cleaner. That way next time a meeting is held the folks in charge will see how much we care. The tree on nine especially it fell over three months ago.
9 hours ago · Edited · Like

Dustin Penwright - I have copied and pasted this ENTIRE thread onto the Roswell Disc Golf Club thread on the ADGO website titled... Eves Rd Complete Street Project
9 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2

Dustin Penwright - Thomas these are great talking points that you could have shared at the meeting tonight with another golfer in attendance. It just so happens that I made a very solid point to 3 reps/counsel members that ERP is a "destination course" for many golfers from around Atlanta and the Southeast. Brett was kind enough to bring up the A-Tier that came through ERP when Avery Jenkins and other touring Pros came to this course. I can not say in words how valuable our imput was tonight at this meeting, the only thing that would have made this a home-run was more in attendance
9 hours ago · Like · 2

Scott Walker - Dustin Penwright: Rec Commission chair Deborah Ewing asked me how many events per year we host, whether people come in from out of town, stay in hotels, etc. Brett also pointed out that some people, when traveling, will find courses they want to play and make plans to stay nearby even if they aren't coming for a tournament -- and that if the course is cut to less than 18 holes, those folks won't be coming anymore.
8 hours ago · Like · 1

Thomas Lackey - Scott Walker, Do you have a Bowsaw? I really need to get this course cleaned up. There are way to many fallen trees that could use some work. If people want to help that's cool. If not I'll do it myself. If nobody has a saw for me, I'll go to Home Depot and buy the necessary tools. In hopes that we have some money set aside for things of this nature.
8 hours ago · Like

Dustin Penwright - On the local level this is an easy reply. Of the two tournaments that have been held, both FITW and LITW, have player from all over Atlanta coming to Roswell for these two days. If you have last years registration for both events you can cross check it easily across the PDGA.com page for hometown or ask via Facebook PM. On the other hand, there is the weekly action run on Monday nights that could be a little tougher to get specifics on. I was thinking about starting a petition on GoPetition.com and spreading it out to players that have played the park at one point and want to support our efforts.
8 hours ago · Like

Dustin Penwright - Thomas, I have a gas powered pole-saw (chainsaw on a stick with a 15 ft reach) and a chainsaw. If you want to borrow them sometime all I ask is you take care of them and return them in the same condition you took them
8 hours ago · Like

Thomas Lackey - I would love to use the chainsaw, but I'm afraid that's illegal in a city park. Although maybe with permission. It's my understanding that no gas powered tools are allowed. That is why I was going old school with the bowsaw. Plus it might help my internal anger to release it on those fallen trees on 9, 18, and a few other places.
8 hours ago · Edited · Like

Dustin Penwright - You would need approval through a permit from the Park and Recs Dept to be able to take down live trees on park property.
8 hours ago · Like

Thomas Lackey - These are all dead from high winds.
8 hours ago · Like

Dustin Penwright - Are you talking about trees that have already fallen and just need to be cut up for removal?
8 hours ago · Like · 1

Thomas Lackey - Yeah, it has been on my mind for 3-4 months. I've asked the park for help, but they still haven't done it. I'm tired of looking at them. Plus it will show the Gov that we care about our course.
7 hours ago · Like

Andrew T. Lofstrand - No power tools on the course. Period. Thomas, I would save your efforts for a structured work day with others and not just go through hacking at and destroying things you don't like; like erosion fences.
7 hours ago · Like · 1

Thomas Lackey - I want the tree at nines basket removed, tree on eighteen on the left that's been laying there for months, and some other dead things removed. The course isn't in that bad of shape, but it's irritating knowing i could get those things cleared in a few hours while i have the time. I'm about to be very busy with work and touring.
7 hours ago · Edited · Like

Scott Walker - Gotta get some sleep before my early wake-up call tomorrow, but . . . . Mark Holder's on board with having his guys take care of some of the heavier cleanup, but finishing the clearing on the new fairway for #6 is the first priority for them on the dg course. With the rain and the the unusually cold weather, together with a lot of other non-dg work going on at ERP (new artificial turf soccer fields, etc.) they haven't been able to work any of it into their schedule recently. We will be having a work day soon -- probably the weekend of Feb 15-16, which is the weekend before we're planning to do Frost in the Woods. Meanwhile, if there are smaller things that can be done with hand tools, and there's agreement from the board on the work to be done, I'm sure we can work something out. Thomas -- I don't mind meeting you at the course during lunch or just after work and doing a walkthrough to look over things and agreeing on a plan, and helping arrange tools if needed. I won't be able to before Thursday of next week as I have a very hectic weekend coming up and then annual whole-company kickoff meetings Mon-Wed, but let me know if Thursday or Friday would work for you
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Re: Eves Rd Complete Street Project

Postby Northside99 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:45 am

Here is the hyperlink to the Facebook discussion in regards to this project....

https://www.facebook.com/groups/348501215205511/permalink/605973646124932/?stream_ref=3
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