Pro / Am and ratings discussion from Lake Russell thread

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Pro / Am and ratings discussion from Lake Russell thread

Postby VERMIN » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:26 pm

The Details
WELCOME TO GEORGIA'S SUPER SIX SERIES and ENJOY!
With the new division changes for 2008 and the advantage of amateurs being able to play in the pro divisions and accept merchandise instead of cash and still retain their amateur status.




Is this still a viable option with the PDGA and participating TD's? I looked for my answer on the PDGA site and could not find the answer. Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell and "the Plan" Information and Times

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:38 pm

2008 PDGA Tour Standards V1.5 11/12/07
Goals are to:
· Provide a set of event standards so that Tournament Directors are familiar with expectations and
players can expect consistency at each tier level.
· Ensure PDGA events are classified in their appropriate tiers.
· Increase the professionalism and marketability of the Tour.
A summary of changes in 2008 includes:
· Online Tournament Registration will be available at no charge to Tournament Directors of PDGA
sanctioned events.
· The creation of a new Amateur division and adjustments to the ratings breaks for Amateur
divisions and “Pros playing Am”.
· Increase in the non-member fee for B and C Tiers to $10.
· Minimum payout percentage, minimum pro purse, and pro attendance for A, B, and C Tiers
replaced by added cash requirements for professional divisions.
· Increase the added pro cash requirement for B Tiers from $250 to $500.
· Increase the added cash requirement for A Tiers from $1000 to $1500.
· Creation of a points series for age protected professional players.
· Eliminate the Developmental Tier (D-Tier) and replace it with a PDGA Competition Endowment
Program.
· The awarding of points to all PDGA events including Majors.
· Amateurs are now allowed to accept merchandise in lieu of cash when competing in professional
divisions.

· The ability for Tournament Directors to run a simplified ratings based event. (See Table 3 for
more information.)
· Adjustments to the recommend maximum entry fees (Table 4) and protected distances (Table 5)
of PDGA events.
A summary of changes from 2006 and 2007 that continue for 2008 includes:
· Creation of the PDGA Competition Manual covering tournament procedures and policies for all
sanctioned events.
· Complimentary insurance for SuperTour events.
· Modifications to the target requirements (Table 2) for sanctioned events.
Jay

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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell and "the Plan" Information and Times

Postby VERMIN » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:05 pm

Thanks Marshal for the clarification as I haven't heard this topic for awhile. I saw that info but wanted to be sure.

It's odd that a chuuby little 891 rated am player cannot get a shiny new frisbee if he earns by stepping up and play in a PRO division, but a 970 and under Pro can compete for AM Payout. Hmmm - I guess I should follow the guidelines set forth by the PDGA and play REC since it encourages playing down as low as you can. :roll:

At least Keith did a cool thing and gave everyone a voucher when they signed up.

This will probably be my last year that the PDGA gets my dues as I see no other benefit from an organization that promotes bagging. I think it will be better just to pay their revenue generating "non-PDGA member" fee and skip any A-Tiers if I want to play in future PDGA events. Will probably just play a PRO division in those just to hang out with some homies and watch some good DG while I play.
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell and "the Plan" Information and Times

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:21 pm

VERMIN wrote:Thanks Marshal for the clarification as I haven't heard this topic for awhile. I saw that info but wanted to be sure.


You have 3 items to look at:

1. The PDGA Competition Manual which outlines procedures and guidelines for PDGA events.
2. The PDGA Official Rules of Play (Rule Book).
3. The PDGA Tour Standards Document (which I posted).

I am currently working on the GDGAA (Georgia Disc Golf Amature Association).... interested?
Jay

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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell and "the Plan" Information and Times

Postby richardhead » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:30 pm

I thought they changed it and now charge a non-member fee even in the lower tier events. So that means you are paying an extra $100 a year if you play 10 tournaments, which you normally do. You may not agree with the PDGA and the way they run things, but if you want to continue playing sanctioned tournaments then you might want to remain a member. You'll save money in the long run.
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell and "the Plan" Information and Times

Postby VERMIN » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:34 pm

Looked at that that collateral Marshall but I wanted a second set of eyes to look at it as well.
We can talk alter about about your Organization. Don't want to clog up Keith's GSSS info board

Rhead - You are right and I did calculate the 10 or more events I usually play in. I also figure I will save $40-$50 in membership dues to help offest that. Maybe I will play REC in some big ones and win, Then I can sell the plastic to make up the difference.

But I am heading to the lake soon and I shouldn't post my dismay with the PDGA here.

INSTEAD - Everyone needs to get with Keith and buy up the remaining GSSS tourney gear !!!!!
Speakin' the vernacular of the peasantry. Poor little kid, I hope she gets home all right....Professor Marvel

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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell and "the Plan" Information and Times

Postby keith johnson » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:23 pm

VERMIN wrote: Don't want to clog up Keith's GSSS info board
TOO LATE! :lol:
INSTEAD - Everyone needs to get with Keith and buy up the remaining GSSS tourney gear !!!!!


To echo what Phillips said, just to play in 4-6 of the GSSS '09 events you'll break even or come out ahead in dues. (no mag option is $40)
The other thing to remember is that if you are NOT a member playing in a PDGA Sanctioned event, the TD can restrict what division you could play in, where a member can play in any division where they are Ratings Eligible.

Something to think about.

And remember when you cash in the Pro Masters division, you'll have the choice to accept cash and forever (barring petitioning for reinstatement) be a PRO, or take the equivalent in prize money vouchers and retain your am status...either way it's a win-win situation.

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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell 6/7 Sep 08 "the Plan" Info & Times

Postby richardhead » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:26 pm

Vermin I have 4 words for you: Bowling Green Am Championships. No membership no tourney. As I remember you tend to lose your load over that gem.
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell and "the Plan" Information and Times

Postby Clunck » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:36 pm

keith johnson wrote:And remember when you cash in the Pro Masters division, you'll have the choice to accept cash and forever (barring petitioning for reinstatement) be a PRO, or take the equivalent in prize money vouchers and retain your am status...either way it's a win-win situation.
Keith

I believe you can take cash as a Pro and still play in future AM events, excluding the Worlds.
That was in, cocker block doesn't count!
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell and "the Plan" Information and Times

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:33 pm

Clunck wrote:I believe you can take cash as a Pro and still play in future AM events, excluding the Worlds.


1. The PDGA Competition Manual which outlines procedures and guidelines for PDGA events.

2.3. Reclassification
A. Professional to Amateur
(1) Players registered with the PDGA as Professionals
may petition the Tour Manager for reclassification back
to Amateur.
B. Amateur to Professional
(1) An Amateur wishing to change their classification to
Professional may do so by contacting the PDGA office
and requesting a Pro card.
(2) An Am player is automatically re-classified as Pro
when the player has accepted cash while competing in
a Pro division.
Accepting prizes in lieu of cash or
accepting money for winning an ancillary contest such
as an ace pool does not cause a player to relinquish
his or her amateur status.
Jay

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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell 6/7 Sep 08 "the Plan" Info & Times

Postby jritger » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:40 pm

Clunck is right... pros with ratings <970 can take cash one week & play advanced the next, excluding majors
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell 6/7 Sep 08 "the Plan" Info & Times

Postby VERMIN » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:46 pm

And remember when you cash in the Pro Masters division, you'll have the choice to accept cash and forever (barring petitioning for reinstatement) be a PRO, or take the equivalent in prize money vouchers and retain your am status...either way it's a win-win situation.
Keith


This is the point / question of my topic. Reading through the PDGA info it lead me to believe that I could not do that. Just Pro's <970 coming down in to AM's was the option. Not AM's playing PRO. I am going to play in 6 different Divisions this year as according to the PDGA I qualify for them all right now. Lake Russell as Pro Master and Shooters Alley and me and my Team Mate's win at Fright Flight will give me the Advnced division that will complete my quest. I am just having fun since injuries left me non-competitive for the 1st half of the year.

I just want something after I beat Mel next weekend besides a ride in the Elbert Co Parade Float to the emergency room :mrgreen: 8) :twisted: 8) :mrgreen:



BTW: Everyone needs to get with Keith and buy up the remaining GSSS tourney gear !!!!!
Speakin' the vernacular of the peasantry. Poor little kid, I hope she gets home all right....Professor Marvel

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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell and "the Plan" Information and Times

Postby Ridesbrd » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:58 pm

Jay wrote:
Clunck wrote:I believe you can take cash as a Pro and still play in future AM events, excluding the Worlds.


1. The PDGA Competition Manual which outlines procedures and guidelines for PDGA events.

2.3. Reclassification
A. Professional to Amateur
(1) Players registered with the PDGA as Professionals
may petition the Tour Manager for reclassification back
to Amateur.
B. Amateur to Professional
(1) An Amateur wishing to change their classification to
Professional may do so by contacting the PDGA office
and requesting a Pro card.
(2) An Am player is automatically re-classified as Pro
when the player has accepted cash while competing in
a Pro division.
Accepting prizes in lieu of cash or
accepting money for winning an ancillary contest such
as an ace pool does not cause a player to relinquish
his or her amateur status.



Section 2.4 page 11 of the competition manual states the rules behind Pro's playing AM
http://pdga.com/documents/2008/08CompetitionManual.pdf
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell 6/7 Sep 08 "the Plan" Info & Times

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:12 pm

My remark above was geared towards the future Lake Russell Pro Masters Winner when he accepts his 1st place $$......Verminator :)

2.4. Pros Playing Am
A. Pros rated less than 970 may now compete in Amateur
divisions offered at PDGA A, B, and C Tier events, for
which they qualify based on player rating, age, and gender.
(1) Pro Men and Women
• < 970 can play Advanced (MA1)
• < 935 can play Intermediate (MA2)
• < 935 can also play Advanced Master (MM1) if they
are of Masters age
• < 900 can play Recreational (MA3)
• < 900 can also play Advanced Grandmaster (MG1) if
they are of Grandmasters age
• < 850 can play Novice (MA4)
(2) Pro Women only
• < 850 can play Advanced Women (FW1)
• < 800 can play Intermediate Women (FW2)
• < 750 can play Recreational Women (FW3)
B. Players are awarded Amateur points for their performance
but these points are not eligible for year-end awards or
Worlds invitations.
Jay

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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell 6/7 Sep 08 "the Plan" Info & Times

Postby VERMIN » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:25 pm

• < 935 can also play Advanced Master (MM1) if they
are of Masters age


So - That lame butt PDGA Amnesty move really helped alot of folks :twisted:

Next Soap Box - The elimination of PDGA age protected divisions for anyone under age 16!!!!!! All future competitions should go on a ratings based competition and you could have Pro or AM divisions. It's a nice way to say you can play up - but you can't play down down!!!!
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell 6/7 Sep 08 "the Plan" Info & Times

Postby keith johnson » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:46 pm

Is there a tournament in 9 days this thread is talking about? :shock:

C'mon, I combined 3 threads into 1 to have the info in one spot w/o having to comb through multiple posts to find info on the Finale and Woods event, and now in the morning I'm going to have to split this off into the Pro/Am thread so everyone can discuss that.

Sorry Vern and others, but this type of sidetracking is why I started this thread to begin with.

I'd be very happy to discuss all the ramifications of ams playing pro, pro playing am and ratings, but NOT on this thread.

Thanks in advance for your understanding.

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Re: Pro / Am and ratings discussion from Lake Russell thread

Postby VERMIN » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:27 am

No problem Keith, I will cut and paste all of this info back on the tourney thread for you to keep everyone up to date with my minor tirade. Man - I gotta keep up with my prescriptions. 8)



*** Don't forget to contact Keith and buy up the remaining GSSS tourney gear. The GSSS discs are sweet!!! ***
Speakin' the vernacular of the peasantry. Poor little kid, I hope she gets home all right....Professor Marvel

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Re: Pro / Am and ratings discussion from Lake Russell thread

Postby keith johnson » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:58 am

VERMIN wrote:No problem Keith, I will cut and paste all of this info back on the tourney thread for you to keep everyone up to date with my minor tirade. Man - I gotta keep up with my prescriptions. 8)



*** Don't forget to contact Keith and buy up the remaining GSSS tourney gear. The GSSS discs are sweet!!! ***


No problem Vern, I'll just cut and paste it back into here. :lol:

I look forward to you having to make a decision on accepting!

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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell 6/7 Sep 08 "the Plan" Info & Times

Postby Woodrow » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:34 am

keith johnson wrote:C'mon, I combined 3 threads into 1 to have the info in one spot w/o having to comb through multiple posts to find info on the Finale and Woods event, and now in the morning I'm going to have to split this off into the Pro/Am thread so everyone can discuss that.

Sorry Vern and others, but this type of sidetracking is why I started this thread to begin with.
Just lock the thread dodo.
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell 6/7 Sep 08 "the Plan" Info & Times

Postby keith johnson » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:46 am

Woodrow wrote:
keith johnson wrote:C'mon, I combined 3 threads into 1 to have the info in one spot w/o having to comb through multiple posts to find info on the Finale and Woods event, and now in the morning I'm going to have to split this off into the Pro/Am thread so everyone can discuss that.

Sorry Vern and others, but this type of sidetracking is why I started this thread to begin with.
Just lock the thread dodo.



I didn't want to lock the thread I just combined 3 threads worth of info into Woody, I locked the other one and unstickied it so people would only ask questions about the tournament on 1 thread not 3. But when things drifted I just split the posts into their own thread which was easier and still lets everyone else (and Paul) still ask questions about Lake Russell.

But I do thank you for thinking I haven't figured out the internet yet, and wishing to help. :mrgreen:
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Re: Pro / Am and ratings discussion from Lake Russell thread

Postby VERMIN » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:20 am

Sounds like Keith got him some of those free computer training DVD's from the guy on TV :D
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Re: GSSS #6 Lake Russell 6/7 Sep 08 "the Plan" Info & Times

Postby Redan Randy » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:33 pm

keith johnson wrote:3 threads worth of info into Woody
Orally or anally? That is what everyone really wants to know!
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